Krishna worships Shiva

Krishna worships Shiva

Wednesday, May 8, 2013

Why iskCON is wrong


International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) is a religious society – or CULT, started by Prabhupada who is a Gaudiya Vaishnava. They are different from other societies or schools of Hinduism by the fact that ISKCON acts like a marketing corporation. While other schools of Hinduism focuses on inner peace and other philosophical elements, ISKCON goes around saying ‘JOIN HERE! JOIN HERE! Be our devotee’. Their intentions are no different than the facebook pages you see around – to make people join their venture so that they get enough publicity and money. What do the devotees gain from this? A shortcut to Nirvana, eternal peace…and so on regardless whatever acts they do in their daily life. What do the prabhus of iskCON gain from this? Money, lavish life styles, respect from devotees, free trip to tourist places and many more.

Bhaktivedanta Swami a.k.a Prabhupada began ISKCON under the philosophies of Gaudiya Vaishnavists. A school that is just 500 years old which was found by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. There weren’t much people following this sect until Prabhupada started ISKCON some 50 years ago. Why? The philosophies and ideals of this sect are in stark contrast with the core philosophies of Hinduism/ Sanatana Dharma. It is clear from his speeches that Prabhupada had no philosophical or psychological knowledge and his statements were hollow. He delivered statements such as “Women have less knowledge than men” and “Love Krishna or love vagina”. He failed to attract philosopher and scientists, people with rational thoughts and sceptics. Such people bowed down to the words of Swami Vivekananda. No people spoke against the philosophies of Swami Vivekananda. However, only desperate people seeking ‘eternal happiness’ who believe in heaven and hell follows Prabhupada and his society blindly.

ISKCON calls Lord Shiva an “Anti-Vedic God” stating that he is not present in the Vedas. Ironically, ‘Rudra’ is present in Vedas and the case is different.. What is the sacred text of Hinduism? It’s the four Vedas- Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yajur Veda and Adharva Veda. They are ‘shruti’ (revealed). They are the words of almighty himself while every other texts such as puranas and ithihasas are ‘smriti’(remembered) are written by sages after studying the Vedas. If you didn’t get what I mean.
Here is an equation: 1+1=2
Here is an illustration of the equation: Dev had 1 apple. Maya gave another apple to Dev. Now, Dev have 2 apples.
While the equation is difficult to understand by the common people, the sages drew the illustration to make the ideas of Vedas be understandable to every single person.

This is why there are many versions of Ramayana, Puranas, and different stories of creation. i.e. it doesn’t make any difference if Dev was Ray and it was Orange instead of apple. The idea of ‘1+1=2’ is the same.
This is the Vedas. The supreme sacred book. If any other book of Hinduism contradicts with the Veda then Vedas are given priority and the latter idea is ruled out. So, what is the sacred book of iskCON?
It’s ‘Bhagavad Gita AS IT IS”. When you hear ‘as it is’ you think it’s the original Bhagavad Gita. It’s not. It’s just the version of Prabhupada who gave it the title ‘as it is’ to fool people all over the world. The devotees of ISKCON never read the Bhagavad Gita commented by other sages such as Shankaracharya, Dayananda etc. They are arrogant and consider Prabhupada’s version as the final word of God and consider even the Vedas as inferior. The deity ‘Radha’ which the followers of iskcon worship is not even present in BhagavataPurana. ‘Radha’ was just a character introduced by Jayadev in his poems.

In Prabhupada’s version of Bhagavad Gita, Krishna is the supreme God, the ultimate one and every other Gods of the Hindu pantheon bow down to him. This is absolute stupidity, The Vedas proposes the Advaita. That all Gods are one and the formless God Parabrahma is the supreme God. When someone says this, the iskcon devotee or prabhu would take down the “BhagvadGita As it is” and points the verses were Krishna says he is the supreme one. This is the behaviour of the followers of Abrahamic Religions. They say “Jesus is the only God” and “if you don’t believe me see here in the Holy Bible”. Same with the Muslims supporting their views using Quran. Let’s say I write a book stating that I’m the most handsome guy in the world. How do you like if I say “I’m the most handsome guy in the world….and if you don’t believe me …see…its written this book”. How about the fact that Superman exists because it is there in his comics. The views of iskcon are written by their own people. I once had a Sivastakam posted in this blog and people were asking me why it says Siva chants Vishnu’s name and such things. I was confused and referred a bit more and found out that this version of Sivastakam was written by none other than Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the founder of Gaudiya Vaishnava. It is no wonder he wrote it that way. It’s like some American write a poem saying Nelson Mandela bowed down to Obama and 500 years later followers of Obama would say ‘see….it’s in this poem. Nelson Mandela worshipped Obama’.

" People often confuse that , 'As it is' means true with out own interpretations . But it is not really so. It is just from 'Gaudiya perspective' only . such things are called COMMENTARIES (Bhashya) only. Adi sankara ( Advaita) , Ramanuja (Vishistadvaita) Madvacharya (Dvaita)etc have written Bhasyas only. They didn't call their Bhasyas as 'Bhagavad Gita AS IT IS' . They are very humble . But Srila Prabhupada showed his stupidity in the Very TITLE it self. This shows his arrogance and hedonistic attitude towards other schools. He Presented Krishna as someone like Biblical God or some Koranic God who want people to worship him only and calling others as Demi gods. This is filthy and foolish as well. If this continues , people may develop wrong concept against Bhagavad Gita. just like 'koran' .
BhagavadGita teaches equality of all paths Gnyana , Karma, Bhakti and Rajayogas. here words of Krishna should not be understood like words of 'Monopolist and Dictator god who seeks sadistic pleasure by ordering his creation to worship him otherwise they will not be liberated. ' These interpretations are suitable for Islam and christianity.
"- Courtesy the blog - ISK'CON'
The 'Maha' Mantra - "Hare Krishna Hare Rama" is considered to be the most powerful and greatest (Maha) mantra by the ISKCON devotees. However this mantra itself is distorted. People
have their own favorite mantras. Some like to chant the Gayatri Mantra and some prefer the Mrityujnaya Mantra. Yet, the Vedas or puranas never even once said any mantra was the greatest. The Vedas don't have a note below the mantra saying "this is the best one".

Everyother sacred texts of Hinduism, every other sects and schools, every single one are all opposed to the ideas of iskcon and the gaudiya vaishnava cult. The ‘Brahma Samhita’ which also states that Shiva worshipped Krishna was also written by the gaudiya vaishnavas 500 years ago. The iskcon prabhus fail to point out any other sacred text apart from the distorted ones of their own in support of their views. They are indeed Anti-Vedic.
How did the iskCON succeed? Their marketing skills ofcourse. Let’s see how it is established.
Emotionally sensitive people are in desperate need for a superior figure to bow down to. The Christians have the Christ, the Muslims have Allah and so on. While in Hinduism there are 300 Million Gods and everyone is a single force – the Nirakara Rupa Parabrahma. Parabrahma doesn’t have a form so can’t be worshipped. People take their favourite God. Some Shiva, some Vishnu, some Ganesha etc. Krishna is one of the popular Gods and is a heroic figure in Hinduism. Instead of doing things mysteriously up in the sky, he came down to earth and lived like a human. Iskcon picked Krishna labelling the ‘Gaudiya Vaishnava’ way. Ok, Krishna is been worshipped for ages. There are thousands of temples in India for Krishna. People all visit them without any biased view. What do the iskCON have to do to bring all those people exclusively inside their temple? Make people believe that everyother Gods in Hinduism are inferior and Krishna is the only supreme God.

This is a difficult job because the Puranas and Vedas have a different view. ‘Let’s distort it’, iskcon thought.  Trimurti- the three ultimate Gods of Hinduism- BrahmaDev, Vishnu and Shiva. Nobody worships BrahmaDev apparently. Vishnu? Let’s just say that Vishnu is only an avatar of Krishna and Krishna is the supreme one. WOW! Nobody ever did such a distortion to Hinduism. Check out every single book of Hinduism and try to find if any one of it (apart from the one written by Gaudiya Vaishnavas) which supports this blasphemy. They made Krishna their 'Father' and Caitanya Mahaprabhu their 'Jesus'. Now, onto the arch enemy of iskCON- Lord Shiva. They said,
“Shiva is a demi-god.
He cannot grant wishes. He only has the control over material elements. He can’t help you attain Nirvana.
Shiva is the best Vaishnava and the greatest devotee of Krishna.
The worshippers of Shiva are brute, alcoholic womanizers. They don’t have artistic sense and they behave like barbarians.
Shiva once said to Yashoda “Give me atleast the chance to eat the remnants of Krishna” in Mathura.
Shiva is a barbaric God. He needs human sacrifices, blood and skulls of people to be pleased.”
Those who are exposed to the views of iskCON find it difficult even to talk about Lord Shiva. Thus they all focus their attention to the only supreme God, Krishna. However, only common people seeking the short cut to ‘eternal happiness’ follow this. Just like the Christians. “Jesus died for your sins. Believe in him and you’ll have the entry to heaven irrespective the sins you did in your life.” While the ‘Karma’ law of Hinduism is of different nature. There is no heaven or hell. Only Life after Death or Niravana. That life depends upon the acts you do in this one. Karma states every action has its consequences which is scientifically proven. Every intellectual believer of Hinduism even atheists believe in this philosophy. ISkcon proposes a shortcut to happiness. No wonder why selfish people blindly follow them- they just need a prosperous life regardless whatever sins they do.

Actually, Krishna is an avatar of Lord Vishnu. In every age, when evil becomes dominant, Vishnu will incarnate on earth to defeat it. In the Dwapara Yuga, Vishnu incarnated as Krishna in human form. He did his Karma and died. Even there is a story behind that. Rama, the previous avatar of Vishnu killed Vanara King Bali by cheating. Knowing that what he did was wrong, Rama said, “you will kill me the same way, while I’m not aware of your attack, in our next life”. Just as he said, Krishna was the reincarnation of Rama and while he was sleeping in a jungle, a hunter (reincarnation of Bali) shot Krishna with an arrow thinking that he was a deer by just seeing his feet. Thus the law of Karma is even applicable to Gods in human forms. Krishna died, but Vishnu still lives. Because he is timeless like Lord Shiva.

ISKCON has been doing whatever they can to degenerate other Gods of Hinduism. There are instances such as the prabhus of iskcon preaching things like ‘I was a Shiva devotee when I was young. Wanted to offer my skull to ShivaLinga but didn’t find the courage or sword to do it.’
What an imprudent scenario!
Search the whole sacred texts of Hinduism and you’ll never see an instance where anyone offering his skull to LordShiva to make him pleased. How can it be? The person will die after he cuts his head, how can he take that to ShivaLinga after his death? This statement of the Prabhu’JI’ was intended to give a wrong impression of Lord Shiva to the people. They will misunderstand Shiva as some demon barbaric God like that of the Mayans or Celts who seeks sacrifice of humans. “It is better to worship Krishna”, they’ll think. People with lesser knowledge on Hinduism, who never read any Puranas or Vedas are prone to believe such distorted ideas of these fake prabhus. While, people who know what Hinduism is, the reality of the Gods in it and the significance of Lord Shiva will only spit at iskCON. That is why iskCON have better success in countries other than India. Indians know the truth about Hinduism but a person new to it would believe whatever distorted philosophies the bogus prabhus propose.

ISKCON are known for their frequent filing of lawsuits, murders, sex scandals and money handling. The prabhus and their followers find ‘inner peace’ by dancing around “ding dong” and speaking against Vedas and other Gods of Hinduism.
JAI MAHADEV!

78 comments:

  1. I've been to the ISKCON temple here in Toronto. Everything that you say is truth. I never had the feeling of being in a Hindu temple. The environment was totally different with the chants and dances. I felt like I was in a church singing "hallelujah". I was totally brainwashed by Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita AS IT IS book. Never have I experienced God speaking to me in a dictatorial voice when reading this book. It wasn't until I read Paramahansa Yoganada's Bhagavad Gita that I truly understood the fundamental message of Gita - yoga.

    Thank you for your courage, time, and effort to write this blog and educate and enlighten the rest of the us.

    Om Nama Shivaya!

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  2. You are absolutely right about ISKON. All hindu gods are inferior and demi gods for them. I had an experience with an ISKON follower who said all hindu gods are demi gods n only they worship the supreme and he even said thaipusam is 'demonic'. Ironically you can see ISKON members selling books,incense sticks in other 'demi god' temples...

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  3. what a bunch of loosers! They say that THEY ONLY will go to paradise while others who pray to shiva/durga/kali will never go to heaven and they will come back to earth each time UNTIL they realise that krishna as per their iskCON idea is the ONLY way!! What fools they are....

    Read the long article called 'the guru business' from http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/guru_biz.htm and you will know how dangerous this cult is. If you can help a 'prabhu' to get out of this cult you will do a great service to mankind. To hell with these fools!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Never knew they were deadly.
      Thanks for the reference.
      However, iskcon is like an alcoholic addiction. Once a person is in its grip, its very difficult to save them unless they have a first hand experience of the venom.

      Delete
  4. Namaste,

    I am so happy to read this post! Really.
    Unfortunately there are many ISKCONite people here in my country (Hungary, Europe) and they try to go into debate over Shiva and His devotees (I am a devotee of Shiva).

    The other day an ISKCONite person says that shaiva people are immoral: they worship a phallus (he referred to the Shivalingam that way!), etc. This was very disrespectful in my opinion and I just left him and walked on.

    Could you write about the Shivalingam and its origine, meaning, what it is and what it is not, etc, please? I would be tahnkful for that.

    Om Namah Shivaya

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2013/05/shiva-linga.html

      POSTED!!!

      Delete
  5. Sincere Thanks For Such A Wise And Detailed Article ...
    || Om Namah Shivayaa ||

    ReplyDelete
  6. http://www.devi-durga.com/Goddesses/Ganga_Mata.html

    Please Note The Details Specified In This Link About Ganga Devi Our Holiest River... Kindly Explain To Me The Truth. Here Again It's Said Ganga Mata Originated From Radha And Krishna Which I Do Not Accept To Be True.... Also Does Really The Devi Bhagavatham Support The Cult Of Krishna ?????

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    Replies
    1. 1. Radha is just a character introduced by the poet Jayadev in his poems. She is not present in any of the sacred scriptures...not even Bhagavata Purana, Vishnu Purana or Mahabharata. Radha is not a goddess among the 300 Million Gods of the Hindu Pantheon. Worshipping Radha is just like worshiping characters like Batman or Superman.

      2. Lord Shiva called 'Gangadharan'? The story that Ganga originated from Radha and Krishna is just a distorted one introduced by the gaudiya vaishnava cult. You can search anyother websites in the whole internet to learn the true story of the origin of Ganga. Here is one-
      http://gangapedia.iitk.ac.in/?q=content/origin-ganga-and-stories-behind-its-inception

      3. Devi Bhagavatam 100% disagrees with gaudiya vaishnavism. It is a Shakta Scripture. Shaktists believe Ma Shakti to be the Supreme God not Vishnu or Krishna.

      Delete
    2. 4. Krishna was born in Dwapara Yuga. If he is the origin of Ganga then that means Ganga never existed before him in Satya Yuga or Treta Yuga. If so, then how do we come across Ganga in Ramayana which occurred in Treta Yuga.

      "Radha and Krishna became liquid"???? How baseless is this story!!!

      Delete
    3. Thank You Very Much.. For This Information. I Have Noticed That The Internet Is Full Of Anti- Lord Shiva Posts. Very Rare To Find Any Web Page That Genuinely Adore Lord Shiva. Also I Feel These Cults Have Succeeded In Polluting And Corrupting Our Sanatana Dharma. All Religious Books Are Already Corrupted. Be It Bhagavatha Or Bhagavad Gita Or Scores of Other Religious Books... Now The Youth And General Public Are Reading These Corrupt Books Leading To Misinformation And Misguidance.

      Also I Find There Are 3 Shiva Astakams. Which Is The Genuine One... One Of course Is The Creation Of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu So It Contains Verses That Shiva Praises Vishnu/ Krishna.. Please Do Enlighten Us All Regarding This. Also There Are Many Shiva Sahasranamam's. Is All Available On Text And MP3 ???
      || OM Namah Shivayaa || __/\__

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    4. Please Do Check Out This Facebook Page ...

      Lord Siva-One of the Greatest Vaishnavas

      Extremely Insulting To Lord Shiva. I Reported This Page But No Action Is Taken As Yet !

      May Lord Shiva Guide All ....

      Delete
    5. @ Yadu V Paremeshwar Are You There In Facebook And Google Plus. ?????

      Delete
  7. You are absolutely correct with your saying. Very intersting artical. Infact, i have learned good things reading your blog. Thanks for this excellent work.

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  8. Although I'm an atheist Indian Hindu, i find myself more close to vedanta and shiva. Prabhupada was a rascal who did not only maligned hindu thoughts but blew fire on all other schools of hinduism. The atheistic school of mimamsa and samkhya was degraded and vedanta and Shankara adwaita was misinterpreted. Was there any hope for Pashupat and kapalika or shaiva thoughts? Worst is that in west ISKCON is becoming synonym of Hinduism, when i talk about atheist that science and religion never came face to face in India which is a fact known and accepted by Indian rationalist and atheist humanist they start asking and quoting ISKCON. This Person Prabhupada has developed a system whwere evolution is not accepted, moon is said to be much farther than actual it is. He has degraded Indian and Hindu thoughts who were rational and atheistic when not bahkti. and became socialist, humanist and theistic with bhakti. Every system had there ups and down, Mimamsa had orthodox catse rules but was atheistic, Bhakti was theistic but also generated sense of equality. No wonder India educated rationalist and humanist quote from theist bhakti saints rather than atheist priests. But ISKCON has waned all these qualities of hinduism.

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  9. Har Har Mahadev!

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is was one of my first spiritual books, but ever since I came across their notion of Lord Shiva as a mere demi-god and not worth worshipping, I felt a bit uncomfortable with ISKCON.
    They are a growing group though! In Western countries, there are more ISKCON temples than any other Hindu temples.

    But my biggest fear is that if they separate from Sanatana Dharma and label themselves as a completely different faith. I'm not sure if they already do that, but a division would be horrible. Sanatana Dharma is already shrinking, division makes it worse.
    But hey, its Kali Yug. Its all downhill from here.

    Awesome blog though, I really like it!

    Om Namah Shivaya

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    Replies
    1. the last part...."But hey, its Kali Yug. Its all downhill from here".... WELL SAID :-D

      JAI BHOLENATH..!!!!

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  10. For All Of Us This Blog Has Been A Boon. All Of Us Who Were Upset With The Lies Spread By ISCKON Found Solace In This Blog. My Sincere Thanks And Gratitude __/\__ .
    @ Pinky M Rightly Pointed Out That ISKCON Is Creating A Seperate religion Distinct From Sanatana Dharma. For Years Sanatana Dharma Withstood Invasions, Conversions, Corruption But How Long Will All this Go On.
    @ Pratyush Too Has Pointed Out In The Right Direction.

    || OM Namah Shivayaa ||

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  11. Yes..
    https://www.facebook.com/yaduvijayakrishnan

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  12. I am really disappointed to see they they are demeaning Lord Shiva in such a crude way. I adore Lord Krishna very much, but the member of this group are interpreting everything incorrect. In fact Lord Krishna and Rama worshipped Lord Shiva. They misinterpreted scriptures to the extent of saying that Bhagwan Vishnu was the Avtar of Krishna. I believe in all Hindu Gods: Shiva, Bramha, Vishnu and all of their incarnations, but I don't believe in devatas as they committed some of the heinous act such as Ahilya episode, Killing of Virochan in treacherous manner. Sai Baba was a complete thief, and Shridi Sai Baba was a great Human being, but not god.

    Om Namah Shivay, Om Namah Bhagvate Vasudeva Namah,
    Om Bhram Devay Namah.

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    Replies
    1. what makes u say that shiridi sai baba is not god? He being human(indeed a yogi) attained god(nirvana) through meditation.

      Delete
  13. Rise above the negativity and spread positivity ...

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  14. Wow, you are exactly right. I spent a few years in ISKCON and then went my own way. I craved understanding and when you focus simply on the BG, you don't get that understanding. I had only read BG As It Is because that is the only real version apparently, lol. I know many people in history have claimed the BG to be one of the most important books in history, but I never could see why; it only seemed to mention the need for a spiritual master every other sentence and never answer any philosophical questions. It wasn't until I heard Alan Watts' commentary on BG that I began to understand it more deeply. I took religious courses in highschool and understood that Krishna was not the supreme God and that Siva was not evil, but ISKCON taught that they were. Thank you for posting this article. I look forward to reading your others. This is a very important topic.

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  15. All are one, thats what we humans need to realize. Theres nothing more supreme than the paramatman ( The supreme atman), and pure love (not pleasure or sensual love, but humanity and oneness towards all). May grace bless us all

    Om namah shivaya

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  16. Thanks for your article. I myself was under the influence of Iskcon's narrow-minded teachings for many years until I managed to finally break free. It feels so great to be breathing fresh air after years of near suffocation by Iskcon's ideology! God is one, the wise can call and worship Him in many name sand forms (including those of Krishna of course). I must say that I am by no mean sagainst the Beautiful Lord Krishna nor against Bhakti yoga or devotion to God. I am only vehemently opposed to all forms of narrow-mindedness, sectarianism and religious fanaticism! However, even though I no longer follow Iskcon, I am still very much attached to Hare Krishna maha mantra. Is is a genuine mantra leading to liberation or is it another of Iskcon's concocted bogus teachings? Please help me clear my doubt

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  17. Yes, it is a genuine mantra from our sacred texts. The quality of this mantra is that it is very easy to learn comparing to other mantras which contains tough vocabularies and is difficult to chant correctly without pronouncing it wrong.
    However, until I became familiar with iskcon, the chant I heard was rather "Hare Ram Hare Ram..." in which Ram comes first instead of Krishna. When consulted with others from different parts of India, they all shared the same experience.

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  18. i have felt lord shivas miracles, every year i go to temple for my rudrabhiseka. I beleive lord shiva. Still i am saying krishna is everything.

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  19. hey Yadu Vijayakrishnan

    thanks for thanks for the writing .

    i am also a devotee of lord shiva but i pray to every god , i do not have any superior or inferior complex on other god and goddess

    and i too am a follower of swami vivekananda

    >can you suggest me some good books on veda and vedanta in english and any other resources to enhance my knowledge on vedanta and reality , I have read some books from Ramakrishna mission publication

    thank you

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  20. the word Radha is mentioned in the Srimad Devi Bhagavatam


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  21. I once had a bad fight with my aunt who's an Iskon devotee. She repeatedly said that Shiva is a demigod only, and I lost my temper! I told her to keep her stupid Iskon views to herself and never insult Shiva(whom I love dearly, like my own Father) in front of me! She never relented, but from that day on, I stopped talking to her.
    I love Krishna, He's never like this, I'm sure of it. I'm glad that you brought these things in public. In one of Prabhupad's books, Shiva and Mata Parvati are referred to as Bhadra and Bhadrani and the book says that they are only demigods lesser than Krishna who bring you nothing but sadness in life! I was so taken aback after reading this that I locked all Prabhupad's books in my cupboard and never read them after that!
    Ironically a month later, my aunt called my mom and told her to come to a Parvati temple(where if you pray, all your wishes, especially with regard to marriage, will be fulfilled). I never told my mom about the argument I had with my aunt. So when my mom told me about what my aunt's plans were, I was flabbergasted! I told my mom about how she insulted Shiva so badly in front of me and how she never gave any respect to my feelings. My mom got so pissed, she never refused to go to Mata Parvati's temple with her after that! I'm so glad I did the right thing.
    I guess many of us are really affected by Iskon in a negative way too, most unfortunately.

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    Replies
    1. iskcon ruined lives of many people. There are people in US where their children are lost to iskcon..

      Delete
    2. Don't worry, ISKCON will not last until 2100.

      Delete
  22. The article is misleading.

    for example:
    1) Regarding "The worshippers of Shiva are brute, alcoholic womanizers."
    True, but not limited to only this group. This is Srila Prabhupada's complete statement:
    "Lord Śiva takes charge of reforming persons who are ghosts and demons, not to speak of others, who are godly; therefore he is the spiritual master of everyone, both the dull and demoniac and the highly learned Vaiṣṇavas."
    basically, in ISKCON we are thought that Lord Shiva is extremely compassionate that even the lowly are accepted as worshipers and reformed. (note: not to speak of others, who are godly)

    This is another statement for Srila Prabhupada:
    "But even though Lord Śiva associates with māyā, he is not influenced. The living entities are affected by māyā, but although Lord Śiva apparently associates with māyā, he is not affected. In other words, all living entities within this material world except for Lord Śiva are swayed by māyā."

    I can many many references where ISKCON teaching glorifies Lord Shiva.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Brajahari Das,
      first of all make urself clear that---
      1. This blog is NOT against Krishna (Vishnu).
      2. This blog is making its readers clear the fact that SHIVA is equal to Vishnu.
      ………………………………………………………………..
      Now read the following points----
      1. Hinduism NEVER forces a person to worship ONLY a particular God like ISKCON does for its MEMBERS.
      2. There is NOTHING LIKE BIGOTISM in the ORIGINAL Sanatana Dharma (modern day called Hindu religion).
      Bigotism Means---- saying that “ ONLY I AM RIGHT….. others are Rascals, Bogus and Fools”

      3. In fact, Hinduism provides Options to the people to CHOOSE THEIR FAVOURITE God………..There are 33 CRORE ……… options given to the people.
      4. Hinduism does NOT provide only 4 options ………. Like in ‘Kaun Banega Crorepati’ ……………..
      and it also DOES NOT provide Only 1 option …..((of Krishna)) …. like in ISKCON.
      5. Hindus believe ONLY in the Meaning of the Verse.
      6. Hindus NEVER believe in the PURPORT written by any man after each verse.

      REASON being ----- “The PURPORT may include the BIGOTED ATTITUDE of the writer …… especially of such a man, ……..who treats the Shiva Purana as UNTOUCHABLES ……by calling it TAMASIC.
      …………………………………………
      …………………………………………
      Dear Brajahari Das, I am explaining it 2 u ONLY because your comments show your “IMPARTIAL and GENTLEMAN ATTITUDE”.
      You have put your point in a very decent way………that’s why I am explaining 2 u.

      Now, try to understand 2 things-------

      1. One there is a FABRICATED PHILOSOPHY …..(( Purports – Personal Views – like Vishnu is Milk, …. And SHIVA is YOGURT…”
      These are not AUTHENTIC

      2. Second, there are ORIGINAL FIGURES & FACTS………..(( without any MIS-interpretations))……which are DIRECT LINES from Religious Scriptures…….. especially Vedas.

      The things promoted by your Organization ,…….. ALTHOUGH many are authentic,………. But many things are FABRICATED ones.

      So, u should believe ONLY in the ORIGINAL FACTS (without Purport)
      ……continued

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    2. As far as Lord SHIVA is concerned…

      The Biggest Example is the MAHA - MRITYUNJAYA Mantra from the Vedas
      RIG VED 7:59:12
      check this link of Wikipedia----

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamrityunjaya_Mantra

      ((Now, DON’T say that is not from Vedas, ……. I am always afraid of the MIS-interpreted PURPORTS GIVEN BY YOUR ORGANIZATION ))

      the word “Mukshiya Maamrtaat” in the verse means--- “Liberating from Death ……Granting SALVATION” ….((Moksha))”

      it clearly shows -----
      “Lord Shiva ALSO GRANTS SALVATION (mOksha) …… similarly like LORD VISHNU”.

      My HUMBLE advice 2 u is -------
      1. Use Your OWN MIND by reading the Meaning Of Verses.
      2. DO NOT read the purport given by any ORGANIZATION

      It proves that Lord Shiva is not a demi-god…….(( since a demi-god cannot grant salvation ))
      ………………………………………………..
      DO not add the MIS-interpreted PURPORT given by your Organization on this blog.
      Look ONLY at the meaning of the VERSE.
      ……………………………………………….
      This ABOVE mantra is the most famous one in the WHOLE OF INDIA.
      Everybody chants this Mantra ….EXCEPT for the Iskcon members.
      ………………………………………………………………
      ………………………………………………………………
      Actually, the Iskcon members are never told the truth about the Vedas.
      THEY ARE GIVEN ONLY SELECTIVE INFORMATION from Vedas,,,,, which suits Iskcon’s bigoted Philosophy towards Lord Vishnu.

      FUNDAMENTAL FACT----
      18 Puranas ……… including PADMA PURANA ….((6:236:18-21))………etc. …………………were written only 5000 years ago by a Rishi called Ved Vyas.
      ……………………………………
      So, if anybody has a DOUBT, he LOOKS INTO VEDAS.
      REASON-----
      VEDAS EXISTED EVEN BEFORE the Puranas (Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra)

      Vedas are NOT WRITTEN by anybody…..u Cannot IGNORE this fact.
      VEDAS ARE THE BACKBONE OF HINDUISM.
      ………………………………….
      …………………………………….
      Dear Brajhari Das, use your own mind and see only the meaning of the verses ………. And not the bigoted PURPORTS. (which degrade other Gods like Shiva)
      Do not let yourself MIS-GUIDED by any Organization,…….not even by ME !!! ….. and NOR by this blog.
      Believe Only in the Original Facts.
      ………………………………………
      Advice -----
      1. The Gods TRINITY – Brahma, Vishnu (Krsna) and Shiva are SUPREME and are EQUALLY capable with POWERS.
      2. Choose your favourite from the 3 ….. and worship HIM.
      3. NEVER call the other 2 as demi-gods.

      Delete
    3. You say that this article is misleading.
      To know about Iskcon, click this link----

      http://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2013/10/iskcon-is-wrong-2.html

      Delete
    4. Dear Advaitin,
      Thank you for your genuine concern for my spiritual welbeing.

      1) Religion is ultimately meant to make our life peaceful.
      2) Its fine to have different opinions as long we do not develop hatred/negative feelings with those who differs.

      Being a follower of ISKCON, my personal experience is that, the teachings of ISKCON helps me to be peaceful, and be respectful to others.


      I am not here to claim whether ISKCON is right or wrong.

      Rather I am finding this article to be misleading about ISKCON's teaching. It also insights hatred towards ISKCON.

      In ISKCON Lord Shiva is regarded with great respect. Teachings of ISKCON does not completely negate Lord Shiva's ability to offer liberation, e.g.:

      "Next, those who are disgusted or frustrated with the materialistic way of life worship Lord Siva to attain salvation, which entails freedom from material identification. One who understands that he is not the material body but is spirit soul is liberated from ignorance. Lord Siva also offers that facility." Bhag. 4.4.15 purport

      Yes, ISKCON does not consider Lord Shiva to be the Supreme Person, but we do consider Lord Shiva's position to be very exalted and worshipable. (e.g. " Even Vaishnavas, who are above both the ordinary and the elevated men in this world, also worship Lord Siva... ").

      The main thing is, there is no hatred in the teaching.

      As I mention earlier I am not claiming which conclusion is correct, as it may lead to a unending debate, and I personally may not have suffienct knowledge either.

      But for now, why dont we simply respect ISKCON's conclusion, though we may disagree. Afterall, there are many saints who has no connection with iSKCON (e.g. the Alwars from the South) who have reached the same conclusion as ISKCON, i.e. Visnu is the Supreme.To be united we need not agree with each other, but we need to repect each other.

      I do appreaciate those sections where the article is trying to show the Supreme position of Lord Shiva, but not those sections where the article makes false claims of ISKCONs view of Lord Shiva, and indirectly insigths hatred towards ISKCON.
      Thank you

      Delete
    5. Dear Brijahari Das,
      This blog is not showing that “ONLY SHIVA IS SUPREME”.
      This blog is trying to show that LORD SHIVA IS ONE OF THE SUPREME TRINITY …. So do not UNDERESTIMATE Him...... as Iskcon does

      Firstly, I beg ur pardon for explaining too long----

      3 children in a Family had their different choices on FAVOURITE COLOURS.
      One child’s Favorite color was BLUE.
      Second’s favorite was BLACK
      third’s fav. -------- RED
      Their father bought them 3 pens – BLACK, BLUE and RED (as per their choices) to do written work.
      But, the children start FIGHTING & ARGUING with each other over a silly topic -
      “Whose pen is SUPERIOR over the other two?? ”

      Though the main purpose of pens was only WRITING, the children started fighting over color superiority.

      WISE THOUGHT – (of u & me)
      Though the colors of pens were DIFFERENT, the purpose of all was ONE i.e. WRITING.
      …………………………………………………….
      Similarly, about 18 puranas, categorized as 6 each
      rajasic purana-- SPG is BRAHMA, and other 2 Gods are shown to worship Him
      sattvik purana – SPG is VISHNU & other 2 worship Him
      tamasic purana – SPG is SHIVA & other 2 worship Him
      SPG - supreme personality of Godhead
      Though the SPGs of these puranas are DIFFERENT, the purpose of all is ONE i.e. granting peace and Salvation.
      ……………………………………………
      So, if we too start arguing (Unending Debate) over who is supreme, there is no difference b/w us and those children.
      ………………………………………………..
      Bigoted ATTITUDE --– Read only VAISHNAVA Puranas and don’t touch the others, only Lord Vishnu (Krsna) is SPG

      WISE THOUGHT –-- u have 2 Alternatives
      1. Read all the 18 PURANAS and find out the TRUTH.
      2. Simply accept ------- that the Gods TRINITY is supreme and all the three worship (RESPECT) each other. …………… U simply choose ur favourite 1.
      the result of both the above will be SAME.

      Generally, in India, people choose the SECOND ALTERNATIVE.
      so my advice 2 u is the same.

      Delete
    6. Since u seem 2 b of Indian origin (S Bala kumar), I want 2 share with u some special points about ISKCON, which I am hopeful, u will not disagree ---

      1. Srila Prabhupada…….. Although he was a great man,……… he reformed a lot young men & women who were drug addicts, sex addicts, gamblers and drunkards
      He travelled all through the world to spread Krsna Consciousness, which no other Indian has done till date.
      He gave them a new direction to love Krsna and thus transformed their lives, they became spiritual

      But, his main blunder was---
      HE ALTERED THE MAIN THEORY OF HINDUISM.
      The mistake done by him was----

      The rank “DEMI-GOD” in Hinduism starts from “INDRA – the god of heaven” and goes further below for others like ‘Vayu Dev’, Agni Dev etc.

      But Srila Prabhupada treated even Lord Shiva & Brahma as demigods
      and Lord Vishnu….just an incarnation of Krsna….. as if Krsna is even superior of the 3.

      NO INDIAN ACCEPTS THIS.

      2. Iskcon is suitable only for the Foreigners (non-Indians), who have no knowledge of Hindu religion

      3. The main theory of Christianity is (I guess)----
      God is …..I don’t know about that ……… and Jesus is God’ son and all others are treated as demigods.

      So, Srila Prabhupada represented the Hindu religion in a Christianized way.
      He said ONLY KRSNA IS SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, and…… all others (even Shiva) are demigods

      He kept even Lord Shiva in the DEMIGODS GROUP.

      This was his COMPLETE BLASPHEMY about Hinduism and is totally unacceptable.

      FACT ---
      Hindus never accept that “ONLY KRSNA” is Supreme.
      Rather, they say “TRINITY IS SUPREME”………and Lord Vishnu (KRSNA) is also among the SUPREME
      Hindus never degrade the other 2 by calling them DEMIGODS.

      This has been logically proved on this blog here--

      http://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2013/10/iskcon-is-wrong-2.html
      ………….LINK- 1 ……………

      and here u can Clearly see the DISTORTIONS made by ISKCON.

      Iskcon has actually CHRISTIANIZED THE HINDU RELIGION by making distortions in it …….so that the people outside of India may easily accept

      4. ISKCON treats the Shiva purana as “Not Worth Reading” ….. as it drags to hell (they say).
      You go to ur nearby Iskcon temple and ask them –
      Why don’t u worship Shiva????
      They will simply cite 4 verses from Padma Purana --Uttarkhand 236:18-21
      That RUMOUR has been LOGICALLY CLEARED on this blog over here----

      http://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2013/10/the-significance-of-tamasic-purana.html
      …………..LINK- 2………………..

      I request ur goodself to please see these 2 links …….ONLY THEN REPLY 2 ME.
      If u see find anything misleading on ABOVE 2 LINKS, then inform it on the blog.
      ………………………………………………………..
      the points discussed above by me are for Indians only. These are the HINDU perspectives put by me.
      Nobody,(( at least any INDIAN who knows even a bit of Hinduism )), will try to deny these facts about Iskcon.( I guess).

      Delete
    7. Dear Advaitin,

      I read both the links in detail. I definitely appreciate the contents (I have read them before too).

      To make my point clear, let's just focus on this one point.

      In this blog it is stated:
      1) "ISKCON calls Lord Shiva an “Anti-Vedic God” stating that he is not present in the Vedas."
      2) "The worshippers of Shiva are brute, alcoholic womanizers. They don’t have artistic sense and they behave like barbarians."

      Now ISKCON's teaching:
      "Lord Śiva takes charge of reforming persons who are ghosts and demons, not to speak of others, who are godly; therefore he is the spiritual master of everyone, both the dull and demoniac and the highly learned Vaiṣṇavas." (Bhag. purport by ISKCON)

      Isn't this misleading and making straw man arguments against ISKCON?
      Please comment only on this one point, for now. Thanks

      Delete
    8. I've posted those points after having experiences with iskcon devotees. yeah, maybe your texts or teaching might not have such words but surely, iskcon followers go around spreading these negative things about Shiva and his worshipers.

      I have friends who go to iskcon temples. They've told me their experiences with the devotees there. In addition to that, I get emails from people around the world complaining the same things. Some are there in the comments of this blog itself.

      Delete
    9. Thank you for the clarification. Sometimes member may mis-present the teachings. My experience with ISKCON is very different.
      Jai Mahadev!
      Hare Krsna!

      Delete
  23. THANKS a million ... you've done a great deed by spreading the word on the web ... even i am also a devotee of lord shiva but i bow & respect all gods ...sometimes outside of hindu parthenon..when their messages are great & for good cause alone..., i do not have any superior or inferior complex on other gods and goddesses.....

    anyway thanks again .... JAI BHOLENATH!!!

    ReplyDelete
  24. In fact Adi Shankara criticised all such philosophies in his bhashya, he calls such followers of such philosophies stupids. He gets so angry that he quotes a verse from the upanishad which dismisses duality and asks the follower of the bhedabheda philosophy "how will you interpret such a verse ? instead of trying to interpret such verses why not throw the upanishads in the sea ? " The main thing Adi Shankara tries to portray is the stupidity of the bhedabheda view. So if Adi Shankara was present during the time of Prabhupada, he would have definitely slapped Prabhupada calling him a stupid dodo. There was none more learned in the Shastras then Adi Shankaracharya and if he himself called the tradition of bhedabheda stupid what to talk of today's intellectuals. In fact the philosophy of Iskcon is a stupid one, there are some people who just cannot grow up, that is why they are imagining a Goloka somewhere in the sky where Krishna is doing the rasaleela with the Gopis and Radha. Just listen to the devotees who say "you know what Krishna is the most powerful of all" it is just like a child saying "superman is powerful and strong". So with the devotees of Iskcon and their Gurus. Only people who need a kind of emotional support and who have not grown up will rely on Iskcon and it's philosophy, but if a person is in true inquiry and is not looking for mere emotional satisfaction, such a person will not accept Iskcon's philosophy. In short Iskcon's philosophy as well as it's followers are to put it in a correct way idiots

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Shriram,
      ISKCON/Prabhupada is not alone who present a different philosophy from Adi Sankara. Madhavacharya, Ramanujacharya, and many other great saints differs from Shankaracharya.

      Are you trying to say if Shankaracharya was present during the time of these great saints, "he would have definitely slapped them calling them a stupid dodo" (in your own words).

      Delete
    2. No that is your misunderstanding, Adi Shankara was mainly pointing to the Bhedabheda view, in his commentaries calls holders of such philosophies "Pashandis". But I hold Prabhupada, Ramanuja and even Madhavacharya as "Pasandis" since they do not have the grasp of the whole of the Vedas any ways. All they say is that "Vishnu is great and Shiva is lesser to Vishnu" But the Sri Rudram gives a good definition of who Shiva is and his exploits. It is also said that reading the Sri Rudram is equivalent to reading the whole of Vedas. Then if that is the case why are the these Acharyas so biased in reading the Vedas itself. Also please don't distort my comment I said if Adi Shankara was present during the time of Prabhupada he would have called him a stupid dodo, and I am not taking my word back. Your question is about Ramanuja and Madhwa then perhaps Adi Shankara would have just explained his Bhashya to Madhwa and Ramanuja if they were present and if they still did not understand the Bhashya then he would have called them dodo. But I have read Prabhupada's works personally I don't think Prabhupada would even have the intelligence to read the Bhashya and understand it. Also I see many Iskconites keep criticizing Advaita Vedanta as Mayavada, if they want to really criticize Advaita Vedanta tell them to read the Bhashyas of Adi Shankara completely on the Brahma Sutras, Bhagavat Gita and the Upanishads and tell them to give convincing arguments as to why the Bhashya is wrong. But the problem is that they do not have the patience for it. Iskcon blames others of not having the proper fund of knowledge but I clearly see that the followers of Iskcon themselves only have lots of information only and believe that having the information has made them knowledgeable but where as the understanding is missing.

      Also I am not trying to say no one has the right to take other paths, I will understand if people cannot understand Advaita since it is very difficult to understand, so people may choose an Ishta and worship. Infact I say that it will be stupid to say that only Vishnu can give Moksha. This will completely be fanatical in approach, I say if the Upasana of Vishnu or Krishna can give Moksha then even the Upasana of Saraswati or Ganesh or Karthikeya or Shiva or any deity for that matter.

      If going to Goloka and joining the rasa as a Gopi is Moksha then even going to Kailasa and worshipping Shiva is also Moksha similarly going to the Loka of Ganesha is also Moksha. Just saying that going only to Vaikunta is Moksha or going only to Goloka is Moksha is a completely partial and fanatical approach

      If Iskcon did not say that "only Krishna is the Supreme Personality and Shiva and others are demigods and less intelligent people are worshipping demigods where as the intelligent people should worship Krishna". Then I would have praised Iskcon, but since Iskcon says this I call it a fanatic organisation and such philosophies and such Gurus need not be encouraged. Infact your "Prabhupada" call "Swami Vivekananda" a "rascal", but Prabhupada would not even have the kind of heart which Vivekananda had for the people of India. What did Vivekananda do that offend Prabhupada ?, if according to Prabhupada Vivekananda spoiled the Indian culture and presented it in a distorted way then it shows Prabhupada's knowledge of Indian culture itself and the Shastras as well. Where as Swami Vivekananda even presented the love of the Gopis for Krishna to the West and even that is not satisfactory to Prabhupada so why should Prabhupada not be called a "dumb dodo". Neither Prabhupada or nor Iskcon do have sufficient knowledge of Shastras that is why they make stupid statements like "Vivekananda is a rascal", this is what is said by Prabhupada himself. A fanatical organisation like Iskcon deserves much more criticism than I give it.

      Delete
  25. Let me quote one more stupid statement by the Iskcon Gurus "The philosophers known as kevaladvaita-vadis generally occupy themselves with hearing the Sariraka-bhasya, a commentary by Sankaracarya, advocating that one impersonally consider oneself the Supreme Lord. Such Mayavada philosophical commentaries upon Vedanta are simply imaginary" There is no proper reason given as to why the Bhashyas are imaginary, "Krishna is in Goloka with his Hladini shakti," I find such statements imaginary since there is no way to verify if there is a Goloka it has to be taken completely on faith. Do the Iskcon Gurus not realize this ? And if I ever go ahead and criticize their philosophy I will be called a rascal. I see no upanishad supporting the claims of Iskcon in any way , I did not find any argument which convinces me of the achintya bheda-abheda view. Since there is no way to verify it. In short all I see is Iskcon coming up with all sorts of bullshit arguments. Prabhupada asks if heat and fire are same or separate ?he says "as heat is not fire but is inseparable from fire so with the Jiva this is Achintya bheda-abheda view " Ok fine has he read the Chandokya Upanishad ? what does it say "Vacharambhano vikaro namadheyam mritiketye va satyam" all that which you call by different names such as pot , jug and so on is nothing but clay. The pot and jugs are not attributes of clay they are the very clay itself similarly with the world and jivas they are the brahman. This is the statement by the Upanishads but no he will twist and turn the meanings to suit his own philosophy. All Iskcon knows is to misrepresent other philosophies and then criticize them only because they have to show the superiority of their own philosophy. What about the hymn in the Rig Veda which says "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti" Absolute truth is one people call it by various names and the Veda continues saying that sometimes it is calls Indra, Yama and so on. What answer does Iskcon have to this ? why is the Veda contradicting their philosophy ? I have not received any proper answer for this. And if further pressed upon Iskcon answers that I am taking this out of context. Ok how the hell is this out of context. Not one proper answer given by Iskcon. All Iskcon can make is as many bullshit arguments they want.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Shiram,

      How would you interperate this :
      nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
      eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman
      (katha upanishad)

      As for the hymns that you gave, note that Bhedabheda does NOT deny oneness.

      Delete
  26. I have given only 2 hymns in my comments. I know that Bhedabheda view of Iskcon does not deny oneness but in the hymn "ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha vadanti" I was talking about the equality of all God whether it be Shiva or Vishnu, I guess you do not have the patience to go through my comment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Sriram,

      I did read the entire article with patient. I did not specifically respond to the hymn as i tried to give a general

      respond. Anyway i will attempt to address your questions here. I am not a sanskrit/vedic educated. My knowledge about

      vedas is limited. As such, i will explain how based on Acitya bheda-bheda tattva (ABB) these things are understood, not to

      proof the validity/superiority of any philosophy.

      Acitya bheda-bheda tattva (ABB) - everything is simultaneously one and different from everything else. In vedas there are

      statements which indicates oneness and there are statements which indicates the difference, i.e. there are verses which

      say that absolute truth is yama, indra, ect. and there are verse which says they are different.

      This hymn "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti" indicates oneness.

      Similar statements are there in Bhagavatam too. E.g. when Akrura was traveling to Vrndavana he was praying to Krsna as

      follows: Krsna(=the Absolute Truth) is percieved as various gods by the ritualistic-brahmanas, as knowledge by the jnanis,

      lord siva by the saivites, soon. So Absolute Truth is one but is realized differently by different people. In bhagavad

      gita also Krsna says that he is the sun, moon, ocean, variou gods, ect. All these are Krsna (Absolute Truth) as there are

      energies of the Absolute (BG7.4,5). But concluding that everything is absolutely-non-different, no recognizing the

      different between energy and the source, is incomplete as ...

      there are also verse which describe the difference. In the same veda (Rig) as the above hyna, it is stated : om tad visnoh

      paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah, "all the devas look upon the abode of visnu as supreme".

      In the bhagavad gita:
      ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta
      yajante sraddhayanvitah
      te 'pi mam eva kaunteya
      yajanty avidhi-purvakam
      (and the next verse)...basicaly stating worshiping different gods are not similar to worshing speaker of Gita. Similarly, there are many verses which explain the differences / eternality of individuality.

      How to understand these, if we only accept absolute non-different? However based on ABB-tatva we can reconcile and

      understand both the similarity and the differences.

      Delete
    2. Dear Sriram,

      I did read the entire article with patient. I did not specifically respond to the hymn as i tried to give a general respond. Anyway i will attempt to address your

      questions here. I am not a sanskrit/vedic educated. My knowledge about vedas is limited. As such, i will explain how based on Acitya bheda-bheda tattva (ABB) these

      things are understood, not to proof the validity/superiority of any philosophy.

      Acitya bheda-bheda tattva (ABB) - everything is simultaneously one and different from everything else. In vedas there are statements which indicates oneness and there

      are statements which indicates the difference, i.e. there are verses which say that absolute truth is yama, indra, ect. and there are verse which says they are

      different.

      This hymn "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti" indicates oneness.

      Similar statements are there in Bhagavatam too. E.g. when Akrura was traveling to Vrndavana he was praying to Krsna as follows: Krsna(=the Absolute Truth) is percieved

      as various gods by the ritualistic-brahmanas, as knowledge by the jnanis, lord siva by the saivites, soon. So Absolute Truth is one but is realized differently by

      different people. In bhagavad gita also Krsna says that he is the sun, moon, ocean, variou gods, ect. All these are Krsna (Absolute Truth) as there are energies of the

      Absolute (BG7.4,5). But concluding that everything is absolutely-non-different, no recognizing the different between energy and the source, is incomplete as ...

      there are also verse which describe the difference. In the same veda (Rig) as the above hyna, it is stated : om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah, "all

      the devas look upon the abode of visnu as supreme".

      In the bhagavad gita:
      ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta
      yajante sraddhayanvitah
      te 'pi mam eva kaunteya
      yajanty avidhi-purvakam
      (and the next verse)...basicaly stating worshiping different gods are not similar to worshing speaker of Gita. Similarly, there are many verses which explain the

      differences / eternality of individuality.

      How to understand these, if we only accept absolute non-different? However based on ABB-tatva we can reconcile and understand both the similarity and the differences.

      Delete
    3. How about looking at the Kena Upanishad which states that worship "that" as Brahman and not what is worshipped here, What the Kena Upanishad mean by "that" "srotrasya srotram, jihvyasya jihva, pranasya pranam, manasoja manoyat pranasya pranam" literally means tongue of tongue, ear of ear, life of life, mind of mind. It is the eternal conscious principle that is to be worshipped or rather known. In the 13th Chapter Lord Krishna says "Kshetrajnyam cha pi maam viddhi sarva kshetre shu bharata" know me to be the knower in all bodies. Here Krishna is not saying to Arjuna know me to be the dancer with Gopis or son of Yashoda. Or as the blue boy of Brindavan. He is the conscious principle that is how I would interpret this verse. When Krishna says catch me alone he means the conscious principle within you not his form.

      Let me add one more thing here, the Bhagavat Geeta should be interpreted as per the ideas in the Upanishads and Vedas and not the Vedas and Upanishads as per the Bhagavat Geeta . This is the approach of Iskcon, do not try to convince me of the authenticity of Iskcon , I am not convinced, it is fanatic.

      As Shakespeare says the devil will quote the scripture in his favour, same thing is done by Iskcon. Bhagavat Geeta can very easily be interpreted by people to get their own philosophy as the verses give this chance.

      Delete
  27. As for the following verse

    "nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
    eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman


    I will take the simple translation as follows

    "The eternal and conscious principle which has become this is the object of all desires or desirers " So in reality all desires are for the ParaBrahman but the problem is that they are indirect desires.

    Let me further split this verse Nityo nityanam- In the Vedas Jivas are held to be Nitya so I take it as whatever is nitya that principle is Brahman. Just like how the quality of heat and light is same in the fire and sparks so the principle which is Brahman is Nitya. The similar interpretation I give to Chetanas chetananam- In all conscious entities it is the quality of consciousness. Eko Bahunam- This same principle is appearing as the existing diversity. Yo Vidhati kaman- This principle which is the cause is the one which is actually sought. If some one asks what is clay and we show the pots, then a person may misunderstand the clay to only mean pots, but it is further clarified that clay is the substance of the pot and it present in all pots. Similarly with the Parabrahman.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Now I have a question in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad there is the following verse
    'Mrityo Sa mrityur apnoti
    ya iha anena pashyati"

    "He who see diversity over here, goes from death to death"

    So the Upanishad declares that seeing diversity does not lead to immortality but Iskcon sees the world and other heavens like Kailasa. Goloka and so on. Then how can the Achintya Bheda abheda view be the view of the Vedas or for that matter of the Upanishads themselves ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Again I will explain this based on Acitya Bheda Abheda: To be freed from cydle of death one should see everything with a single vision, i.e how can i uttilize this in the service of my Lord. In fact, these type of verses are the basis of Bhakti-yoga, were a devotee sees everything with only one vision - how can i use it to please my beloved Lord (abheda). In the process of utilizing he makes discrimination (bheda).

      If we would take this verse to defend absolute-non-different - while some transcendentalist may have lived a life where they would not differentite anything - not all did this, and definately its not a requirement for liberation. In fact, even Sankaracharya would have differentiated among things...most likely he was a vegeterian...he saw the difference between beef and vegetables...he mite have avoided things which are unfavarable for his sadhana...does it mean he is going to suffer repeated death?

      So based on ABB - we see everything as Krsna's energy, and thus non-different (abheda).There are seen with a single vision- how to enggage in the service of Krsna (abheda). However, in application we make discrimination...somethings may be unfavarable for our sadhana and thus we reject (bheda), but we dont hate or love anything by itself (abheda).

      Delete
    2. Again I will explain this based on Acitya Bheda Abheda: To be freed from cydle of death one should see everything with a single vision, i.e how can i uttilize this in

      the service of my Lord. In fact, these type of verses are the basis of Bhakti-yoga, were a devotee sees everything with only one vision - how can i use it to please my

      beloved Lord (abheda). In the process of utilizing he makes discrimination (bheda).

      If we would take this verse to defend absolute-non-different - while some transcendentalist may have lived a life where they would not differentite anything - not all

      did this, and definately its not a requirement for liberation. In fact, even Sankaracharya would have differentiated among things...most likely he was a

      vegeterian...he saw the difference between beef and vegetables...he mite have avoided things which are unfavarable for his sadhana...does it mean he is going to

      suffer repeated death?

      So based on ABB - we see everything as Krsna's energy, and thus non-different (abheda).There are seen with a single vision- how to enggage in the service of Krsna

      (abheda). However, in application we make discrimination...somethings may be unfavarable for our sadhana and thus we reject (bheda), but we dont hate or love anything

      by itself (abheda).

      Delete
    3. The verse says "ya iha anena pashyati" he who sees something as different. So the verse completely rejects even the perception of reality with difference so no it cannot be so.

      "Sankaracharya would have differentiated among things...most likely he was a

      vegeterian...he saw the difference between beef and vegetables...he mite have avoided things which are unfavarable for his sadhana...does it mean he is going to

      suffer repeated death? "

      I see this as taking out of context but I will still reply to it. The verse is only talking about perception of Brahman "ya iha" refers to Brahman, if in the perception of Brahman you include diversity you go from death to death.

      That is what it refers to . Also you blame that absolute non-difference is not something within one's experience and since duality is within once experience it is true. That is not the case, we see the sun rise and set, does that mean the sun actually rise. No that is not the truth.

      The verse clearly says that he goes from death to death who see diversity in Brahman. Bhedabheda view sees diversity in Brahman. According to it there is diversity in Brahman itself.

      Abheda or Kevala-Advaita says that in the very essence Brahman is unity, problem with Bhedabheda is that it tries to locate diversity essentially in Brahman. This is not the purport of the Vedas if the verse quoted by me is taken seriously. According to you Supreme Brahman is Krishna with a form, this takes "Swagatabheda" meaning Bheda with in the entity itself. Viewing Brahman is such a way is condemned by the Upanishad itself.

      So you may say what about Sadhana, that is also answered by the Acharya himself he says that as soon as a child is born you do not give it instruction, and hence the Vedas tell Karma to a person who is full of desires. Once such a person sees the futility of chasing his desires and gets Vairagya, the Veda automatically will teach him about Brahman , at this point such a person takes the Sadhana of Sravana, Manana and Dhyana and realises the non-dual Brahman.

      So Shankaracharya is only talking about perception of Brahman not about diet rules and other Sadhana.

      Even while doing your Krishna Bhakti you will have to see duality that is not seeing the actual Brahman. Since your Krishna is nothing but a product of human imagination that is all. Men have decided to project God in a human form and hence Krishna has been projected as some one great that is all. Such perception or Bhakti leads only to death if it is also perceived in Brahman. Hence in conclusion the Verse says that if you see diversity within Brahman it leads to death.

      So the ABB view is not compatible with the view of the Upanishads. Also the whole of Kevala-Advaita is Vastu Tantra meaning it just perceiving something as it is. But ABB view is Buddhi tantra, something has to be imagined. While doing Pooja to Krishna I have to imagine him being seated and that I treating him bathing him giving him new cloths so on. This is all imagination, all Poojas are the imagination of the devotee hence Buddhi Tantra.

      Delete
  29. Dear Brajahari Das,

    As my comments are long I have split them up for you to read them. I would lastly like to add one more thing , you said that Iskcon gives you peace, if that is so fine with me , but if the Iskcon followers are calling Advaitins "rascals" that will not be tolerated. If they say that people who put Vishnu and Shiva on equal stand are "Pasandis" that will not be tolerated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Shriram,

      1) Even Sankaracharya called those who disagree with his philosopy as "pasandis". (I knew this from your posting)
      2) After practicing few years in ISKCON, i am starting to realize (I have also learn this from the realization of many senior ISKCON devotees) that when Srila Prabhupada called the advaitins rascal, he not refering to any external people. In fact, it is refering to the impersonal mentality in his disciple (us). As in bhakti, we want to serve Krsna eternally as his servant, any tinge on advaita-mentality would be detrimental for our sadhana, as it minimizes our service to the Lord as something temporary (maya) & and teh form of our Lord as maya. We follow Srimad Bhagavatam as out standard text, and the bhakti taught in Bhagavatam would be contaminated and confused if one is not ccareful with advaita philosophy.
      3) Prabhupada often called the impersonalist as transcendentalist. We are taught to respect them but not to be influence by the philosophy. In fact, in private Prabhupada has taught his disciple to "fall down and offer obeisances" whenever they see a advaita-sanyasi as a respect for their deteachment/practice...but do it from far (avoid associating) as to be careful with our devotion to our beloved Lord.

      Is there anything wrong in this?

      Delete
    2. I have read the works of Prabhupada he calls the impersonalists "Mayavadi Rascals" that is what is wrong with his approach. He has called "Vivekananda" a "Rascal". This was your Prabhupada who said it.

      Delete
    3. Shankaracharya does not call those who do not agree with his philosophy "Pasandis" Shankaracharya calls only those people "Pasandis" who says that the deity they worship is superior and all other deities are inferior. He calls such a view to be a "Pasandatva" and as per him it is not in accordance with the Vedas.

      Delete
    4. Dear Brajaharidas,

      Whatever may be the case, I really like the way you have defended you Guru and your Guru's Siddhanta this is something which should not go unappreciated. You my friend are truly a very tolerant person and your arguments clearly show that there is no dishonesty in your heart.

      I wish that the Grace of your Ishta Lord Krishna be with you and may the blessings of your Guru always shower upon you.

      Delete
    5. Dear Brajahari Das,

      Many Iskconites mistake Advaita Vedanta to be something which is preached openly. But that is not the case, it is an absolutely terse subject and cannot be understood by every one. So Advaitins will allow every one to have their own views even if they contradict Advaita it is alright. Also Advaita does not influence any Bhakta to stop doing Pooja and so on, this cannot be expected from a person. Every one can follow their own path as per their capacity where primarily ahimsa is promoted. If you accept that absolute truth is realised differently by different people then we have no quarrel. As long as you are not forcing your own views on others it is absolutely fine. An Advaitin does not go ahead and force his views on others such a person is not considered an Advaitin

      Delete
    6. Also I would say that only through Advaita Vedanta that all Gods are given respect, not through the Achintya Bheda Abheda vada. Saying that all are Brahman no doubt but Lord Krishna is the main Brahman or the Supreme Brahman is very patronising way of putting it across.

      This is never going to be acceptable it is not the view of the Vedas.

      Delete
  30. This is intriguing. I teach at a university, and I myself got into an argument with a student who's an iskcon devotee, when talking about evolution.
    She was so adamant that evolution is a lie fabricated by Darwin because Jesus did not cure his sick daughter.
    She was quoting Narada and Bhagavata etc, at which I couldn't stop myself from laughing, and at the same time being shocked at how iconoclastic and bigoted her views were. She's only 17.

    I have come to realize that any kind of 'worship' and 'belief' is largely for psychological security. The real purpose of religion has only been to keep the community together, and let everyone attain their maximum potential.
    In this sense, one doesn't even have to be religious to live in peace as long as one understands that there's divinity within oneself.
    I think Shiva and Krishna could have been real or figurative people who have reached the heights of their potential through discipline and yoga.
    So in a way they are role models for us to aspire and emulate, for us to learn from, rather than idols or gods who we 'worship' to grant our wishes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Darwin's fantasy of evolution is most unscientific. There is no empirical or other scientific evidence for his fantasy.

      Evolution takes place in the individual consciousness, no where else. Darwin didn't even understand the contancy of time/space.

      Better become consciousness of parabrahman, who is definitely an unlimited person. If you like, of course.

      Delete
  31. What we trying to promote is the most central view of Hinduism which if understood properly does not require you to believe any thing, our attempt is to take out the distorted views of Hinduism presented by Iskcon.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anyone who denies parabrahman to be an unlimited person is in illusion. All living entities are part and parcel of parabrahman. In quality the same, not in quantity.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Any one who says Parabrahman has parts is simply stating their own speculations. Now there are 2 alternatives here either completely abandon logic and say I blindly believe in what my Sampradaya says then fine you can go ahead and believe it or find out test and verify for oneself what truth is. I have not even found even one convincing argument from Iskcon or it's Prabhus. If you are just saying this is what the scripture says then it is not something very convincing. Even Shaktas will quote scriptures to says Devi is Supreme. Ganapatyas will quote the scriptures and say Ganapati is Supreme and so on. In either case your arguments are not convincing.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Sir further more I would like to say , I am not here to condemn anything not even the path you have chosen. If this path or Sampradaya actually appeals to you, then go for it. You may even say Krishna is Supreme, but add to more words to it, for me.

    Some one once told Hanuman that Lord Rama is none other than Vishnu, Hanuman said let it be so but still Lord Rama is my favorite and is Supreme for me. Your path is best for you, to that extent I am ok with it. Please do not force your ideas and beliefs on others.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Great blog. Thank you very much for your articles and comments. Despite i am not a religious person i have always thought/felt that all religions present different versions/perspectives of a unique god. A few months ago a began a personal research about hinduism for family reasons. Whe reading the "Gita As It Is" i felt like a was taking for a fool when they told to believe "all who believe in the impersonal characteristic of the Supreme Brahman are mayavadis rascasl and so on.
    Just like you said:
    """ShriramDecember 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM
    I have read the works of Prabhupada he calls the impersonalists "Mayavadi Rascals" that is what is wrong with his approach. He has called "Vivekananda" a "Rascal". This was your Prabhupada who said it. """.

    Iskcon is not only spreading fanatism and falsity but also ruining the lifes of many. For instance, reading the "Gita As IT Is" i got the impresion that centuries of teachings and philosophy are being trhow to the trash, and that hindus have religion so confusing that only a mad or a fool would believe it. That is not fair, and inspire disrespect for the gods and believes of millions.

    Please can someone tell me a good source to learn more of Shiva. A good edition of the "Gita" (withouth "bigotism" ), a beginners book in Swami Vivekananda's teachings. And where i can learn of krishna's departing in his human form.

    Again, thanks in advance!
    German

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The BEST and MOST TRUSTED version of Gita (with nearly correct explanation) is available here --->
      Link --->

      http://www.sadhaksanjivani.com/

      It is published by Gitapress Gorakhpur by a saint SWAMI RAMSUKHDAS JI MAHARAJ

      Both ENGLISH & HINDI in PDF format

      Hari Om

      Delete
  36. Thank you so much for your time and dedication. I am crying as I am writing this to you. I love lord shiva and mata Parvati..I have felt their love and guidance in every steps of my life. It is so sad to see these cult making Shiva Parvati as mere demigods and so many false things about them. Thank you so much!!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hare Krsna!!!!!!!!! it was sheer chance that i came across your blog, son....i was just 'unfriended' by an ISCKON follower for objecting to demean Siva....she exactly said the same things that's been quoted in the above comments....:-)..like you, me and my 'unfriend', we too belong to tvpm..:-D...Your blog on spirituality, if i may call it so, is excellent....believe you are doing lot of research before blogging.....good going son...keep up the great work...it is a big help to novices like me on this path ... BTW let me not slip to mention that i am a self proclaimed Krshnabhakta.....but will definitely not support any kind of insults flung on other's faith....continue your blogging on spirituality with the same fervor and perseverance...do not know it is coincidence or destiny for you have Krsna in your first and second name and the same time you are an ardent follower of Siva. TC and Hare Krsna!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Hi,

    Thanks for info.I hate ISCKON but not Lord Krishna. I mean I respect every god and every religion in this world.I am a devotee of Lord Shiva. I use to watch religions videos on youtube during free time. Most time I use to see foreigners dancing and chanting "Hare Krishna,Hare Rama" with this ISCKON people.Good thing in seeing this video is they practice Hinduism.ISCKON provide wrong information on Lord Shiva.A video in youtube where a US Person who workship Lord Krishna by ISCKON says Lord Shiva came from third eye of Lord Brahma. Everybody knows the truth. I just commented him pointing every wrong things what he said. Further routed him to know more on Thiruvannamalai,Rameswaram Shiva temple so that he can truly understand who Lord Shiva is.

    Do you know how I feel if someone says wrong about Lord Shiva? Here we go, assume you and your mother/father/wife/sister going on walk in a street.A strange guy comes and speaks with whoever accompanied you. Suddenly the strange person slaps your mother/father/sister/wife hardly then he/she started to cry with blood coming out from their mouth. All this happen in front of you and in public. In response myself will tighten my body nerves and punch him hardly(my full body power on my right hand) on his mouth. My punch must me like that his head and body must vibrate after the impact and he dies once falling to the ground.
    Above feeling arises in me if someone insult Lord Shiva but I can't implement the same in real life and I don't like to be cause for any religious violence.I internally will say to myself Lord Shiva will see him(Punish him if he is wrong). I will move away from the place.

    Main thing why I hate ISCKON in the sense.If a organisation tries to spread a religion.Fine its good but not by promoting only one god as the supreme and others as inferior to the people who like to know more about a new religion.

    Even I doubted myself at times whether ISCKON forcefully make people to join them.

    Even I don't know why the foreigners blindly follow them .I mean mostly matured people join them. They are grown up,matured why can't they think before following them. I mean why can't they explore full Hinduism on their own way. What's the need to join ISCKON.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I was in Iskcon, but I started to become confused by their contradictory teaching. Such as being sexist one minute, then saying we're not our body the next. They said I had to see the founder's words as good as god, but I couldn't accept that.
    I liked the stories of Krishna with Radha, about how he cares for Radha more than any other, and how the Gopis were the best devotees. I know people in heaven aren't the same as on Earth as they're spiritual, but if Prabhupada makes a point out of saying Krishna is a man, then the Gopis must be female in one form or another. Radha and Krishna seem to match in with the yin/yang idea of masculine and feminine energies.
    I'm also aware of how we're not our body which is only a material covering, but when I read what Prabhupada said about women, it made me feel more attached to my body than any other spiritual path I have ever followed, and tried to make me feel ashamed of it when women are as valuable as men. I met many women who put more into keeping temples going than men.
    I'm well aware some say that it's just acknowledging males and females have differences, but I don't agree, as there would be at least something positive said about the feminine when they go on about how great men are, but he lied about women only having half the brain size of men, and he said Marie Curie discovering radioactivity is a lie.
    Plus I think he was very materialistic with how he mixed in his marital situation in with his teachings, as despite his wife devoting her life to him since she was a child and giving him many children, where many said she was a good wife, he put her down to his disciples about how he never liked her anyway.
    He says women shouldn't have an education and should just serve a man, but then the man can't care about his wife much, as he should abandon his uneducated wife who isn't allowed to work and had spent her life under his orders. It all sounds quite depressing to me and makes me feel more attached to my body than when I followed Buddhism.
    Much of it is contradictory, as his books say more women go to temples as they find it easier to love god and less philosophical.
    Then he says that the most important thing is to love god and not be philosophical about it, so doesn't that make females better devotees?
    He said that women can think of their husband when they die and then they will come back as a man, but men can't think of their wife. I asked if women can go back to god and I was told they can, but nobody explained how if women are supposed to think of their husband instead of god. Why are women in the organisation if they're single, widowed or divorced? Why do many single women put so much time and money into help keeping temples going if it says they're so rubbish?
    Plus if intelligence is about being Krishna conscious, why are lots of women I met married to men not interested in KC? One woman said she lies to her husband about where she's going, as he would accuse her of being in a cult, so if men are more intelligent then is he right about it being a cult?
    I could go on for ages about it, but most of the recorded conversations by Prabhupada are contradictory, and then I'm told I have to think of his words as being direct from god when I can't ever agree with that.
    If women are so rubbish, why was it men who caused Iskcon in the USA to go bankrupt from paying abuse victims? Prabhupada appointed those abusers, so he can't be that perfect. I'm sure those abusive men took the children from their spiritual path more than any devotee woman took a man off his spiritual path.

    ReplyDelete